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Cite element: Difference between revisions

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(move question from opinions section to an FAQ since there is an answer using existing markup in HTML4 and later.)
(→‎Documentation: add counter-argument section, DanC quote from IRC, and follow-up)
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* 2005-03-13: <cite>[http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/ The Elements of Meaningful XHTML]</cite> presentation (to an overflowing room at SXSW Interactive 2005 in Austin, TX) specifically, [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide10 slide10 and following] document blog quote markup, and [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide19 slide 19 and following] document conversation markup.
* 2005-03-13: <cite>[http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/ The Elements of Meaningful XHTML]</cite> presentation (to an overflowing room at SXSW Interactive 2005 in Austin, TX) specifically, [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide10 slide10 and following] document blog quote markup, and [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide19 slide 19 and following] document conversation markup.
** 2005-09-29: update: <cite>[http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/ The Elements of Meaningful XHTML]</cite> presentation (to a packed room at Web Essential 05 in Sydney Australia) again [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/#slide10 slide 10 and following], and [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/#slide34 slide 34 and following] respectively.
** 2005-09-29: update: <cite>[http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/ The Elements of Meaningful XHTML]</cite> presentation (to a packed room at Web Essential 05 in Sydney Australia) again [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/#slide10 slide 10 and following], and [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/#slide34 slide 34 and following] respectively.
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=== Counter-arguments ===
* 2007-06-07 <cite>Dan Connolly</cite>, Editor of HTML 2.0, said in IRC that <blockquote cite="http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20070607#l-797">&lt;cite&gt; was supposed to capture the chicago-manual-of-style idiom for titles of works. I have lost track of what it means these days.</blockquote>
** This may have been the original intent (original theoretical purity), however, based on the example in the HTML4 spec(s) and adoption by the web community over the past 10+ years (see above examples in the wild), it makes more sense to define the &lt;cite&gt; element per actual usage (preferring authors), rather than original intent (theoretical purity), per the HTML5 design principles. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 22:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
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Revision as of 22:18, 13 August 2010

Research, data, use cases, issues, and enhancements related to the HTML5 cite element.

Speaker

The cite element has been used (and recommended to be used) to refer to speakers in a conversation, or individuals when quoting them, thus HTML5 should explicitly permit and encourage this use.

This section serves to document both uses in the wild, and long-standing recommendations/documentations thereof.

Examples in the Wild

Documentation

Counter-arguments

  • 2007-06-07 Dan Connolly, Editor of HTML 2.0, said in IRC that

    <cite> was supposed to capture the chicago-manual-of-style idiom for titles of works. I have lost track of what it means these days.

    • This may have been the original intent (original theoretical purity), however, based on the example in the HTML4 spec(s) and adoption by the web community over the past 10+ years (see above examples in the wild), it makes more sense to define the <cite> element per actual usage (preferring authors), rather than original intent (theoretical purity), per the HTML5 design principles. - Tantek 22:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
  • ...

Opinions

Opinions on whether HTML5 should explicitly permit and encourage use of the cite element to refer to speakers in a conversation, or individuals when quoting them:

articles

Articles supporting the use of the cite element for marking up speakers:

FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions about using the cite element for marking up speakers.

how do you connect the speaker cite to what was said

Question: How could we connect the speaker, CITE to what was said, Q, without nesting? Perhaps using FOR, as in form labels:

<cite for="good">Andy Mabbett</cite> said <q id="good">This is good</q>.

On the other hand, if we reverse that we could have a many-to-one relationship:

<cite id="andy">Andy Mabbett</cite> said <q for="andy">This is good</q> and later said <q for="andy">This is better</q>.</nowiki>

Answer: The existing 'cite' attribute on the <q> and <blockquote> elements can be used for this, in HTML4 and later:

<cite id="andy">Andy Mabbett</cite> said 
<q cite="#andy">This is good</q>
 and later said 
<q cite="#andy">This is better</q>.

related

references