WHATWG Wiki - User contributions [en]

Cite element

2011-03-18T13:36:52Z

Alicethomas: /* references */

Research, data, use cases, issues, and enhancements related to the HTML5 <code>cite</code> element.

== Speaker ==
The cite element has been used (and recommended to be used) to refer to speakers in a conversation, or individuals when quoting them, thus HTML5 should explicitly permit and encourage this use.

This section serves to document both uses in the wild, and long-standing recommendations/documentations thereof.

=== Examples in the Wild ===
* 2003-08-23: <cite>[http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/08/29/semantics Won’t somebody please think of the gerbils?]</cite> by <cite>[http://diveintomark.org/ Mark Pilgrim]</cite>: <blockquote>I mark up names of people I link to (like in the list above) with the CITE tag, and I have a script that runs every night that aggregates those tags and creates posts by citation.</blockquote>
* [http://www.geekinthepark.co.uk/transcripts/2008/brian-cant.html transcript of the presentation “What Brian Cant Never Taught You About Metadata”, by Drew McLellen] (this is from a template I provided the transcription company; all others are similar structure. brucel)
* Many blog posts on [http://adactio.com/journal/ adactio.com], e.g <cite>[http://adactio.com/journal/1398/ Blame]</cite> from 2008-01-09: <blockquote>...something Bruce Sterling said at last year’s South by Southwest...</blockquote>
* Default WordPress theme ("Kubrick") uses cite for name of commenters. That's approx 46 bajillion instances.
* The transcripts for comics (#34 and onward) at [http://www.cssquirrel.com/ CSSquirrel]. The links to the transcripts are hidden from sighted users, one example is: [http://www.cssquirrel.com/comicscripts/script35.htm Transcript #35 2009-09-08]
* 2005-05-16: Speakers in this <cite>[http://erikanderica.org/erik/work/lazarus/playtext/ Towneley Lazarus play]</cite> edition are identified using CITE.
* [http://igofigure.com/page/testimonials/ Testimonials on the website for Go Figure Inc.] use cite to denote the names/locations of the people who provided the testimonial
* [http://guineylaw.com/testimonials/ The Law Offices of Thomas G Guiney] uses cite to mark up the names of speakers for testimonial quotes.
* [http://2009.dconstruct.org/podcast/makeitso/ Podcast transcript] from dConstruct 2009 ([http://2009.dconstruct.org/podcast/ more])
* Various "conversations"/transcripts at [http://peterjanes.ca/blog/ Petroglyphs], e.g. [http://peterjanes.ca/blog/2008/04/04/bang/ dialogue], and [http://peterjanes.ca/blog/wp-content/themes/petroglyphs/style.css CSS classes defined for terms, titles, etc.] ([http://peterjanes.ca/2005/citations/# XMDP])
* any article at Einfach für Alle (major german accessibility resource), e.g. [http://www.einfach-fuer-alle.de/artikel/ueberschriften-strukturen-in-html/] (see sidebar, 4th box from top labelled "mehr dazu:") uses cite to mark up authors' names
* any articles on [http://www.la-grange.net/ La Grange] with a quote from a book or poem, and in addition any kind of references to a blog post. cite class="auteur" and cite class="title" for author and title respectively.

=== Documentation ===
* 1998-04-24 <cite>[http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/struct/text.html#h-9.2.1 HTML 4.0 REC]</cite> <blockquote>Contains a citation or a reference to other sources.</blockquote><blockquote>As <CITE>Harry S. Truman</CITE> said, <Q lang="en-us">The buck stops here.</Q>More information can be found in <CITE>[ISO-0000]</CITE>.</blockquote>
* 1999-12-24 <cite>[http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-CITE HTML 4.01 REC]</cite> (same definition and examples as quoted above).
* 2005-03-13: <cite>[http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/ The Elements of Meaningful XHTML]</cite> presentation (to an overflowing room at SXSW Interactive 2005 in Austin, TX) specifically, [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide10 slide10 and following] document blog quote markup, and [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/03/elementsofxhtml/#slide19 slide 19 and following] document conversation markup.
** 2005-09-29: update: <cite>[http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/ The Elements of Meaningful XHTML]</cite> presentation (to a packed room at Web Essential 05 in Sydney Australia) again [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/#slide10 slide 10 and following], and [http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/09/elements-of-xhtml/#slide34 slide 34 and following] respectively.
* ...

=== Counter-arguments ===
==== original intent of cite element ====
* 2007-06-07 <cite>Dan Connolly</cite>, Editor of HTML 2.0, said in IRC that <blockquote cite="http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html-wg/20070607#l-797"><cite> was supposed to capture the chicago-manual-of-style idiom for titles of works. I have lost track of what it means these days.</blockquote>
** This may have been the original intent (original theoretical purity), however, based on the example in the HTML4 spec(s) and adoption by the web community over the past 10+ years (see above examples in the wild), it makes more sense to define the <cite> element per actual usage (preferring authors), rather than original intent (theoretical purity), per the [http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#priority-of-constituencies priority of constituencies HTML design principle]. - [[User:Tantek|Tantek]] 22:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

* "DanC said allowing <nowiki><cite></nowiki> for speakers was a bug in HTML 4 that happened because he was asleep at the wheel."
** Regardless of what DanC as a specifier may have intended, the authors have widely adopted the usage of cite for speakers, and thus since authors are considered over specifiers (per above-referenced design principle), we should prefer author usage over original specifier intent.

==== speakers are not italicized typically ====
* "Since speakers aren't italicized typically, using <nowiki><cite></nowiki> for them doesn't really make sense. "
** This sounds like either an argument from presentation, which seems backwards, as semantics should be determined first, and then authors can style semantics however they wish, or it's an argument from default presentation implementation, in which case once again per [http://www.w3.org/TR/html-design-principles/#priority-of-constituencies priority of constituencies HTML design principle], since authors are considered over implementers, we should respect author usage of cite for speakers over any particular implementer opinion of what cite should do or look like.
***The Design Principles don't support the notion of determining semantics first. In fact, the Design Principles were carefully drafted not to treat semantics as having any value on their own right but only as a means to a useful end (such as Device Independence or Accessibility). As for considering authors over implementors or specifiers, we should consider whether an author who hasn't been exposed to advocacy that tries to rationalize the feature set of HTML4 would find a need to mark up speakers in a way that italicizes by default and required additional work to un-italicize as opposed to not marking up speakers at all all using the <code>b</code> element to bold speakers where required by a newspaper-like house style. That is, what authors do after having been exposed to advocacy is bad evidence for determining the needs the authors would have on their own initiative.

=== Opinions ===
Opinions on whether HTML5 should explicitly permit and encourage use of the cite element to refer to speakers in a conversation, or individuals when quoting them:
<div class="discussion">
* +1 [http://www.zeldman.com/superfriends/ HTML5 Super Friends], specifically [http://www.zeldman.com/superfriends/guide/#cite cite element: review of data].
* +1 [[Tantek]]
* +1 [[User:Adactio|Jeremy Keith]]
* +1 Bruce Lawson, article agreeing with Tantek, July 06 [http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2006/breaking-news-w3c-specs-are-not-word-of-god/ Breaking news: w3c specs are not the Word of God]
* +1 [http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/User:Cssquirrel Kyle Weems]
* +1 [http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/User:Erikvorhes Erik Vorhes]
* +1 [http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Themattharris Matt Harris]
* -0 [[User:EdwardOConnor|EdwardOConnor]]
* +1 [[User:Xanthir|Tab Atkins Jr.]]
* +1 [http://www.rachaelmoore.name/web-design/html-web-design/citing-in-html5-cite-attribute-and-cite-tag/ Citing in HTML5] by Rachael L. Moore
* +1 [[User:Tcaspers|Tomas Caspers]]
* +1 [[NickFitz]]
* +1 [[User:Asbjornu|Asbjørn Ulsberg]]
* +1 [http://statichtml.com/2009/html5-cite-element.html HTML5's <cite> element: what is it good for?] by Steve Webster
* +1 [[User:Urlyman|Jonathan Schofield]]
* +1 [[User:Dalizard|Dimitar Haralanov]]
* +1 [[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]
* +1 [[Tim White]]
* +1 [[Travis Swicegood]]
* -1 [[User:Hsivonen|Henri Sivonen]]
* +1 [[User:KevinMarks|Kevin Marks]]
* +1 [[User:Stefsull|Stephanie (Sullivan) Rewis]]
* +1 Kroc Camen—See my [http://camendesign.com/abbr_redux article on abbr/dfn/cite usage]—Cite is “for giving credit”
</div>

=== articles on speaker cite ===
Articles supporting the use of the cite element for marking up speakers:
* <cite>[http://24ways.org/2009/incite-a-riot 24 Ways: Incite A Riot]</cite>, 2009-12-11, by Jeremy Keith

=== speaker cite FAQ ===
Frequently Asked Questions about using the cite element for marking up speakers.

==== how do you connect the speaker cite to what was said ====
'''Question:''' How could we connect the speaker, CITE to what was said, Q, without nesting? Perhaps using FOR, as in form labels:<pre><nowiki><cite for="good">Andy Mabbett</cite> said <q id="good">This is good</q>.</nowiki></pre>On the other hand, if we reverse that we could have a many-to-one relationship:<pre><nowiki><cite id="andy">Andy Mabbett</cite> said <q for="andy">This is good</q></nowiki> and later said <q for="andy">This is better</q>.</nowiki></pre>

'''Answer:''' The existing [http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#adef-cite-Q 'cite' attribute] on the <q> and <blockquote> elements can be used for this, in HTML4 and later:

<pre style="background:#efe"><nowiki>
<cite id="andy">Andy Mabbett</cite> said
<q cite="#andy">This is good</q>
and later said
<q cite="#andy">This is better</q>.
</nowiki></pre>

=== speaker cite related ===
* [[FAQ#The_.3Ccite.3E_element_should_allow_names_of_people_to_be_marked_up|WHATWG FAQ re cite and names of people]]

== references ==
* [http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/text.html#edef-CITE HTML 4.01 definition of the CITE element]

[[Category:Proposals]]
* [http://www.designerevaluation.com/logo-design/ logo design]
* [http://www.designerevaluation.com/ website design]

Rationale

2011-03-18T13:36:10Z

Alicethomas: /* References */

This document serves a rationale document for various parts of the HTML5 specification. Over time this page will be a complete rationale document.

== General Rationale ==

=== One Vendor, One Veto ===

Part of the the goal of the WHATWG is to document how web browsers actually handle HTML. As such browser vendors already have veto power - by not following the standard. The W3C and WHATWG do not have any enforcement power and can only write what browsers are willing to implement. Not removing features from the HTML standard that at least one browser vendor has stated they are unwilling to implement causes the HTML spec to not accurately document reality.<ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jul/0257.html -- Re: Codecs for <video> and <audio></a></ref><ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2009Jul/0075.html --Formal Objection to One vendor, One Veto</ref>. The veto isn't a
power that we grant browsers, it's a right that they earn on their own by virtue of having users. The minimum market share for a veto is somewhere around 1%.<ref>http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2010-June/026897.html</ref>

=== Using elements where scripts "work" ===
In addition, arguments were made that JavaScript-based implementations of details suffer from problems and limitations. Scripting behavior may be inconsistent across browsers, or even unavailable in some contexts. Accessibility is "bolted on", allowing more opportunity for author error, even when using libraries. The data model is not exposed in a consistent way in the markup. And matching native appearance and behavior across a range of platforms may be impractical.<ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jun/att-0659/issue-93-decision.html</ref>

=== It isn't just about web browsers ===
Web browsers are not the only programs that use HTML. Sometimes elements and features are needed even when browsers won't use them in any meaningful way. Document authoring tools, validators, search engines, screen readers, outliners, researchers, etc. all need and can use more information than a browser can. Furthermore if you provide more information than is currently used by browsers it opens up room for innovation.

=== Experimenting with features ===
New unknown and untested features are unlikely to get accepted into the WHATWG spec. Browsers and browser extensions (like Google Gears) are expected to first establish use cases and implementation possibilities before the spec is changed. <ref>http://www.mail-archive.com/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/msg22577.html</ref>

=== Versioning the spec ===
Most authors don't care about whether or not an implementation supports an entire, full specification; they just want to know "Can I use this feature in this browser?" So saying that all major implementations support much of CSS 2 to a high degree of correctness is useless for knowing if, say, the author can use display: run-in. In other words, the feature tables are what web authors would actually use in real life.<ref>http://www.mail-archive.com/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/msg23306.html</ref>



=== Modifying existing semantics ===
Some elements have different semantics than what HTML4 users would expect. Semantic markup isn't very useful if most pages use elements in a manner that conflicts with the defined semantics. For example, if a search engine treated dd as enclosing a term being defined, for the purposes of searching for definitions (or excluding defining occurrences from results), it would not find many definitions, and it would misclassify things.<ref>http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/help-whatwg.org/2010-October/000668.html</ref>

== Specific Elements ==

=== Doctype ===
Since HTML5 has moved to an unversioned model the doctype does not a have version number. It is necessary for legacy browsers that will switch to standards mode only when a doctype is present.

=== Plaintext ===
The <plaintext> element is a obsolete precursor to the <pre> element. <ref>http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/draft-ietf-iiir-html-01.txt</ref> It is now in the HTML5 spec as a method of stopping all further html token parsing. It lacks an end tag and just emits the rest of the page as plain text. It throws a parse error upon reaching the end of the document as it is not considered a valid element (and it is missing an end-tag).

=== Image ===

<image> element is treated as an alternate (but invalid) name for <img>. This is because some sites (around 0.2%<ref>Email from Ian Hickson; comment in spec source</ref>) make this mistake. It is already treated as an image by most major browsers.

=== Meter and Progress (are not the same thing) ===

<meter> is not just a special case of <progress>. The meter element represents a scalar measurement within a known range, such as storage quota usage, a relative popularity rating or relevance indicator. The control allows for the indication of high and low ranges, or minimum, maximum and optimal levels.

The progress element, on the other hand, represents the completion progress of a task. This could be a real time indicator for background processing task (e.g. using Web Workers or a file upload). Progress elmements can also be in the indeterminate state, indicating that something is in progress, but it's completion progress is unknown.<ref>http://html5doctor.com/your-questions-answered-11/</ref>

The default rendering for a meter element could look something like the following:

<img src="http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/art/ct_leveldiscrete.gif" alt="example of proper rendering for the meter element">

Whereas, the default rendering for the progress element could look like this:

<img src="http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/art/ct_determprogsizes.jpg">

Alternatively, an indeterminate progress bar could also be styled as a throbber, which indicates progress without any indication of the remaining progress:

<img src="http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/userexperience/conceptual/applehiguidelines/art/ct_asynchprogindsizes.jpg" alt="picture of the default apple throbber">

See [http://www.mail-archive.com/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/msg01308.html Re: <progress> draft] for details.

=== B, I, EM, STRONG, and MARK ===
 is meant to indicate that some text is emphasized. is meant to confer importance upon text. is meant for text that is stylistically offset from the rest of the text. Finally is used to indicate that some text is meant to be read in an alternate mood.


For example
Cats are cute animals.
could mean that cats are specifically cute.
Cats are cute animals.
could mean that the word cute is in some way important
Cats are cute animals.
could mean that the word cute is a new word (perhaps in a language lesson) but is not important
Cats are cute animals.
could mean that the word cute is meant to be read in a different tone (sarcastically for example)
Cats are cute animals.
means that the sentence is to be read normally but the word "cute" should be highlighted or marked in some way. This could be used for search terms on the page or alterations to an original text.

=== IMG tag & alt text ===
On certain types of pages adding alt text is impossible (like sites that the user could upload images but does not supply a description). Because of this the alt attribute is optional <ref>http://www.paciellogroup.com/resources/articles/altinhtml5.html</ref><ref>http://juicystudio.com/article/requiring-alt-attribute-html5.php</ref><ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jun/0393.html</ref>
A longdesc attribute is not needed <ref>http://juicystudio.com/article/html5-image-element-no-alt.php</ref>

=== textarea ===

The text area defaults to soft wrapping of the text area. The attribute @wrap can have one of the following values: soft, hard, or off.<ref>http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#the-textarea-element-0</ref>. "off" is considered a non-conforming value because it appears to have no purpose other than a visual presentational effect. <ref>http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2009-August/022022.html</ref><ref>http://www.mail-archive.com/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/msg22660.html</ref>

=== hgroup and other heading elements ===
The point of <hgroup> is to hide the subtitle from the outlining algorithm.


=== details element ===
The <details> element is needed to provide an accessible way of reflecting a
common application widget in HTML-based applications without requiring authors
to use extensive scripting, ARIA, and platform-specific CSS to get the same
effect.<ref>http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8379#c13</ref><ref>http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/removedetails</ref>

== HTML parsing ==

=== script element ===

Why the [http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/scripting-1.html#restrictions-for-contents-of-script-elements restrictions for contents of script elements]? Why the [http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#script-data-double-escaped-dash-dash-state complicated parsing rules for script elements]?

See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-comments/2010Mar/0017.html

==== @DEFER and @ASYNC ====
ASYNC tells the browsers to run the script with its following content at the SAME time(namely, asynchronously).
DEFER tells the browsers to run the script LATER, and to run the following content first(the browsers will run the script until the page is ready).<ref>http://www.mail-archive.com/whatwg@lists.whatwg.org/msg22436.html</ref>

=== quirks mode ===

The HTML parser has [http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/tokenization.html#parsing-main-inbody the following] behavior difference in quirks mode:

<blockquote><dl><dt>A start tag whose tag name is "table"
<dd>If the Document is not set to quirks mode, and the stack of open elements has a p element in scope, then act as if an end tag with the tag name "p" had been seen.</dl></blockquote>

Why? See http://hsivonen.iki.fi/last-html-quirk/

=== ignored white space before head ===

White space before the <code><head></code> tag is ignored. The main reason is that, given the markup

<pre>
<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<title>Sample page</title>
...,
</pre>

some people expect

<pre>
document.documentElement.firstChild
</pre>

to return the <code>head</code> element.<ref><cite>[http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-March/014148.html [whatwg] several messages about the tree construction stage of HTML parsing]</cite></ref>




== Failed proposals ==
=== An "advert" tag for advertisements ===
There is no advert tag because if users had an easy method of plainly disabling all ads from downloading or appearing content authors would cease to use the tag.<ref>http://lists.whatwg.org/htdig.cgi/whatwg-whatwg.org/2008-February/013939.html</ref>

=== sandbox attribute on the html element ===
HTML is the wrong level for disabling scripts or other features. This is the kind of thing we should do at the HTTP layer.<ref>http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8849</ref><ref>https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/CSP</ref>

=== feature queries ===
Various proposals have come up with the idea of being able to determine of a certain feature is available.<ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009Dec/0130.html</ref> These fail for a variety of reasons:
Part of the problem is that browser vendors will be economical with the truth. Marketing people always have an over-optimistic view of the compliance of their product, and will always give themselves the benefit of the doubt in borderline cases. Also, changing the compliance statement, to remove false claims that are exposed, is likely to a very low priority for the developers.<ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2010Jul/0097.html</ref>
With regard to CSS feature compliance: Remember that CSS
provides hints and implementations don't have to accept those hints, and
hardware may sometimes prevent their being implemented.<ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2003Nov/0000.html</ref>
Some other reasons can be found in the footnotes.<ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2003Oct/0074.html</ref><ref>http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2004Mar/0282.html</ref>

=== custom HTML elements ===
Custom elements make it impossible for search engines, developers, and browsers to understand the semantics of a page.<ref>http://html5doctor.com/your-questions-13/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+html5doctor+%28HTML5doctor%29</ref>



== Other Pages ==

* [[Why no namespaces]]
* [[Why no script implements]]
* [[Why not reuse legend|Why not reuse legend or another ''mini-header'' element.]]
* [http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/KeepNewElements Rationale for a variety of elements]
* [[XHTML2 versus HTML5]]
* [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/0300.html <meta http-equiv=content-language> ]
* [http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/RationalesGathering earlier page started with the same purpose.]
* [http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/KeepNewElements rationale for some new HTML5 elements]
* [http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/FAQ WHATWG FAQ]

== References ==
<references/>
* [http://www.seoprofessionalsonline.com professional seo]
* [http://www.seoprofessionalsonline.com/website-optimizer.asp website optimizer]
* [http://www.realsofttech.com/ web design service]